INT MY PLACE -DAY
I interviewed David Hinnebusch on the 10th of July, 2000 at
his bungalow apartment in Santa Monica, California. Red
Barchetta was playing when I came through the door. ZDTV, a
cable channel about computers and the internet, also plays
quietly in the background.
C.J.
It's been a long time since we last
talked.
HINNEBUSCH
It's been six or seven years.
C.J.
No.
HINNEBUSCH
Yes I think it's been seven years. You
interviewed me for Flipside in 1990.
C.J.
God. Do you still have a copy of it?
David then ran into another room to find it. He comes right
back.
HINNEBUSCH
On second thought lets skip it. A little
too much past for me
C.J.
Not the right past.
HINNEBUSCH
Yeah.
C.J.
Your place is cozy.
D.H.
My place is tiny.
C.J.
How long have you lived here?
D.H.
A little over a year. We've been waiting
to move into the house in front. I think
we'll be in by the end of August.
David's apartment is full of books and videos and there are
Paintings everywhere.
Some are piled to the ceiling in the kitchen but I can't help
feeling a sense of order about the place. I checked to see
if his books were alphabetized but found them completely
mixed up. I haven't seen him in nearly ten years and I will
always remember his eclectic collection of books.
C.J.
You have the Compact Oxford Dictionary
D.H.
I don't use the god damn thing very much.
But it's a great book isn't it? I wish I
had the regular size edition but where
would I put it? I read a fictional story
about one of it's contributors- some guy
locked in a nut ward sifting through old
tomes for arcane words- I loved the idea
of that.
C.J.
When I first interviewed you, you were in
Entropy. And then I interviewed you for
Flipside six or seven years later and now
it's been almost ten years again.
D.H.
It's an exciting time isn't it?
C.J.
Why?
D.H.
The internet. I'm married. I'm online.
I have a website. I have a career. My
parents love me. I got to play Dungeons
and Dragons this year
C.J.
How was that?
D.H.
It wasn't like the old days. When we
were playing in the old days- we were in
an epic struggle against evil that had
been going on for almost ten years before
then. Our Dungeon Master had a sense of
history. I started playing in 1977. It
was truly a virtual world then- First
edition AD&D was the literature of role-
playing. We would sit around drinking
beer talking about the old days hacking
and slashing though dungeons and killing
monsters like it really happened.
C.J.
Have you followed the changes in role
playing since?
D.H.
My brother spends a little time playing
Everquest but I don't like the aesthetics
of the game nor the style of the game for
that matter.
Everquest is an online real time fantasy adventure computer
game. Original Dungeons & Dragons was designed to play with
paper and pencil- a dungeon master creates a world and, using
story telling techniques, takes the players on an adventure
in which the players decide what their characters (Fighters,
Magic- Users, Clerics, etc.) Do in the Dungeon Master's
world.
C.J.
Are you still drinking coffee?
D.H.
I've actually been trying to quit. I was
recently in London and I drank- I've been
drinking a lot of tea lately. When I
lived overseas I had teatime everyday.
Milk in triangular cartons.
C.J.
You lived in Kenya.
D.H.
Almost thirty years ago. It's where I
had my first cup of coffee- Folger's
Instant- I was 7 and it was fantastic
C.J.
Not like Starbucks
D.H.
I got fired from Starbucks for not being
a team player and not learning fast
enough. I almost cried. I was shocked.
C.J.
When did you work at Starbucks?
D.H.
In 1995. I had left my job in Post
Production and needed a job while I was
in school. I was actually kind of into
the idea.
It seemed like a good no skills job to
have- stock option, free coffee- medical,
dental, I keep thinking if I ever tell
this story to Charlie Rose, will I sound
like a madman.
C.J.
Charlie Rose....You have dilutions of
grandeur.
D.H.
You know I'm a Charlie Rose fan.
Watching is like going to church. He's a
bit of a ding- a- ling. I think that's
what I'll call my band no, my website-
ding-a-ling.com!
C.J.
Charlie Rose is a ding- a- ling?
D.H.
He's silly. You know I tape the show and
watch five hours of him on Friday
afternoons- great stuff. My wife and I
went to Paris after London and when we
returned home I watched him interview a
bunch of people in Paris. I haven't been
in the sunlight of serendipity for awhile
now but Charlie Rose always seems to pull
a rabbit out of the hat for me
spiritually.
C.J.
You still are a bit of a weirdo
D.H.
And a ding- a- ling. I always seem to
see myself in my heroes.
C.J.
What do you mean by sunshine of the
serendipity dare I ask
D.H.
You're a bit of a pretentious fuck.
C.J.
True true
D.H.
And don't copy my idioms I mean my
colloquialisms
C.J.
Why not. We come from the same stock.
D.H.
You're the fucking weirdo- Anyway. There
was a time when what fed me from day to
day was the idea that coincidence was the
way God told me I was on the right path.
That's what is so brilliant about the
inherent you can get answers.
C.J.
Do you believe in God still.
D.H.
Still?
C.J.
Well, you've mentioned some loss.
D.H.
I kind of believe that God is my parent.
So I've had to expect some
disappointments- not getting the new red
cruiser or the directing job but more the
recent deaths of some special people on
top of me almost killing a seven year old
boy at work last week. I'm fucking
pissed and I believe I should be pissed-
plus my support group kicked me out for
not having a regular job.
C.J.
How's you almost kill the child?
D.H.
He rode his bike into the side of my
truck when I was pulling out of the
studio. If I hadn't stopped my back tire
would have flattened him. Two months ago
one of my quiet heros- an artist who was
just beginning to sell her work and was
having her first solo show was killed by
a car on her bike. It's total bullshit.
I was deeply affected by it. One of my
best friends died of a drug overdose etc.
etc. etc. And my little brother's in the
hospital.
C.J.
This is turning into a little therapy
session. I think I'm going to have to
bill you.
D.H.
Let's not get into a philosophical
discussion. The thing I have to remember
is that I have to keep talking about the
stuff to process it- even if I know what
they are going to say. At least we have
the light.
C.J.
Huh?
D.H.
The California light.
C.J.
How's the painting coming along?
D.H.
That's great. Well it's not fantastic.
I had a little show here. I hung 20
Paintings- oh! I one to Lauren
Hartman! I forgot about that. And I'm
working on this website to showcase my
work but the project has become a
metaphor for my life.
C.J.
How so?
D.H.
We'll, part of how I procrastinate is to
get everything I think I need in place
before I begin. I play chess with myself
with no opponent by pushing one pawn at a
time forward. Terrible analogy. I have
to have all the How- To books before I
start living, I have to build the studio
before I start painting, the perfect
library before I start reading. What do
you do?
C.J.
I don't really exist in the context of
interviewing you. Existentially
speaking...
D.H.
Well on the flipside I have much to be
grateful for. I have a huge extended
family in the film business- the
commercial production business more
correctly.
These are people I have seen on and off
in different combinations over nearly ten
years.
C.J.
How so?
D.H.
Well, you work in these crews- everyone
is freelance and you work for different
companies on different jobs for different
producers but you always recognize
someone you've worked with before- There
250,000 people in the commercial film/
movie business and yet the experience is
villagous
C.J.
How do you spell that?
D.H.
Like JelloȚ. Let talk about JelloȚ. Hey
that's it. I'll make a JelloȚ
commercial.
C.J.
Why is it that you have so many creative
dare I say talents?
D.H.
I've been alive for a long time now. 35
years.
C.J.
But why aren't you a master of one?
D.H.
I'm not? I think I'm a genius- we'll to
be honest I might just be average- but
when you're talking about creative
exPRESSion I think that makes the genius
in us all. ExPRESSing that is sometimes
confused with conceit- what ever conceit
is.
C.J.
Why do you think you still make a living
taking out the trash?
D.H.
That is a fucking harsh question. I need
an emergency joke to kill you right now
but I'm not that funny...Maybe I'm just
lucky.
I had a teacher named Roland Young who
talked about, as an artist, you create
own complete world- a design idea?...so I
harken back to my Dungeons and DragonsȚ
days when I think about the idea of
immersion and if I look at my creative
life which begins with my Father pinning
the diaper through my flesh or the German
nanny telling me that my parents were
never coming back because I was a bad boy
or the fact that there were crocodiles in
the lake. I see that I was always doing
things that "artists" do.
C.J.
Like,
D.H.
When I was 6 I started writing stories.
When I was eight I wrote a few books.
When I was ten I was back in the states I
started playing D&D and I published a
newsletter for the D&D group and I
started playing music. TV killed my
writing career. Through out this time I
was doing the illustration for the
written works but I still didn't consider
myself an "artist". Is this getting
boring?
C.J.
Yes. Do you know any good jokes?
D.H.
I never could tell jokes. But when I'm
working I manage to make everyone laugh
their asses off. My brand of humor is
very whacky. I want to do make whacky
commercials if I ever get any fucking
representation
C.J.
You cuss a lot
D.H.
I hate that. I'm glad I don't see
myself. You know, in some ways I'm a
missionary- like the Dominicans from my
past. I spent a lot of time angry about
litterbugs and rude drivers and on set, I
often key right into the most unhappy
person and try to crack their mask. It's
a kind of curse
C.J.
You make a lot of obscure references.
D.H.
No I don't.
C.J.
Who the hell are the Dominican's?
D.H.
Now that is kind of funny. It's like
when someone sneezes I say Bless you and
if they sneeze again I say bless you damn
it and if they sneeze again I say bless
you God damn it but no one ever laughs.
C.J.
You live in your own world sometimes huh?
When did you realize you were an artist?
D.H.
I took an oil painting class. I can
render and I used to think that is what
made an artist. I'm a really bad painter
or I'm a genius is what "they" say.
Anyway, I was working is post and I'd get
off work at four am and I'd go visit my
girlfriend at the time, who was in the
hospital in a coma- then I'd go to this
painting class and the old woman would
yell at me about objectifying the model
by painting firmer larger breasts. She
would take the paint brush out of my hand
and paint over my work! God I wish I
still had those pieces now
C.J.
You painted over them.
D.H.
When you're poor and you need canvas you-
I also never really finish a piece. I've
sold paintings that I call "one note"
types- where I do the work in a single
exPRESSion. What I like to do is work the
piece like a mathematician might play
with their pet theorem. Each piece like
that I do can take years to complete
while I do the calculations
C.J.
The building of the canvas
D.H.
Quit teasing me
(feigning the voice of a
whining child)
C.J.
The painting of the painting
D.H.
The structure and composition I usually
trace but its the color and what I call
the accoutrement which make for the
work...the part of the process I love.
C.J.
Is the part of you that paints the quick
"single note" works the Mr. Hyde in you?
D.H.
Definitely. I'm glad you ask these weird
questions. You make me feel normal.
C.J.
You're welcome.
D.H.
We should interview you sometime. You
know that's a prerequisite to write for
the HFN (fakeart.net Newsletter)
C.J.
Really?
D.H.
Yeah. Anyone who wants to write for us
must first submit and self- written
interview of themselves.
C.J.
I'm a journalist- there's nothing
interesting about my life. How's the
your web venture coming along?
D.H.
I have had a hard time getting started on
it. As you might remember, it took me 5
years to shoot my film and five years to
give up on my band and five years to go t
art school and five years to paint a body
of work and fuck- it takes along time for
me to do things when I have so many
distractions
C.J.
I remember you telling me that it was how
you thought you could best share your
work.
D.H.
Yeah. Well having art shows or doing film
or publishing your writings are full time
jobs and since I'm into much of the arts,
I can think no better way that the web.
When I first put the site up and
submitted it to search engines, I got
hits from all over the world- including
the state department and the department
of defence- that was kind of interesting.
I include the word underground in my meta-
tag
C.J.
Meta- tag?
D.H.
They help the web surfer find you- by
listing key words that describe what your
site is all about. I used underground to
describe the anti- secondhand smoking
commercials and I guess the government
picked up the word and looked at my site
or maybe they search all sites looking
for words or hate stuff
C.J.
What do you think about that?
D.H.
What?
C.J.
The government regulating the internet-
or taxing the internet?
D.H.
Those are two different questions. I
wouldn't mind the C.I.A. keeping tabs on
us. The scary scenarios that this
implies are less worrisome than the
alterative
C.J.
You are for Carnivore (the FBI's search
engine)
D.H.
I'm more interested in public
transportation than giving my credit card
to a total stranger.
C.J.
You believe man is inherently good.
D.H.
Of course. People behind the wheel are
just abusing power- power needs a
vestibule that can hold it.
C.J.
What should be done?
D.H.
I don't know. I think making kindness
fashionable is a good idea but- well shit-
I'm confused about the answer now that
I'm talking about it. If we are talking
about kindness I think it's because I'm
scared by rudeness where other people
don't notice it. It might be that I
always need to have something to be
unhappy about-
C.J.
Are you unhappy?
D.H.
No. But this has been a very difficult
ten years. I've paid high interest on
being a drug addict in my late teens-
early twenties. I don't regret- well I
have regrets but I wouldn't trade it. I
used to be told that my best thinking got
me where I was (meaning that the mess I
was in was due to my best thinking and
that) I was also told that pain was going
to be my "touchstone for growth" so I
figure that my best thinking was going to
lead to growth eventually.
C.J.
What are we talking about now?
D.H.
Well. Much of my recent pain is due to
not getting work making commercials.
C.J.
Why would you want to make commercials?
D.H.
Hmmm.
C.J.
Why would a genius like you want to sell
soap?
D.H.
I'm a knuckle head. I want to make anti-
commercials but I have gotten my reel
into the right hands. I keep thinking I
need to do a website and build my virtual
advertising agency to show the kind of
work I want to do.
C.J.
Hmmm.
D.H.
That's a great top.
C.J.
Thanks. they make my breasts look pretty
big huh?
D.H.
Where were we?
C.J.
Something about the traffic and your
director's reel and the web.
D.H.
And why the hell I would want to sell
soap. Well first- because I'm an artist-
did I say thins already?
C.J.
What?
D.H.
About the need to publish?
C.J.
I don't remember.
D.H.
Well an artist needs to publish his work
even if it's only sending out the slides.
It's building a brand. The only
difference is that although I'm building
a brand based on my creativity, I'm also
building a house to the work of others.
C.J.
Why?
D.H.
I told you. I don't want to take out
trash for a living.
C.J.
It's a good living.
D.H.
Yeah but I want to have a family so I
need to make a little more money. Plus I
have acquired a sizeable personal debt
which I intend to repay.
C.J.
Lets talk about music. How's the music?
D.H.
I have groove maker. But as per
everything else, I'm waiting to have the
sight up to start writing again.
C.J.
What kind of music would you be doing?
D.H.
Some kind of electronica and I might
start singing some good old big band
stuff- for fun.
C.J.
You're into a lot of stuff? If Charlie
Rose ever needed a loser to interview I'd
recommend you.
D.H.
That's my idea. Babe Ruth was loser. He
had the record for the most strike outs.
C.J.
You don't compare with Babe ruth. You
don't have any home runs.
D.H.
I want to be famous for being average.
That's my brand. The final brand. The
C+ student.
C.J.
C++
D.H.
My what funny new words we are learning
C.J. It has a lot to do with be wanting
to sell soap.
C.J.
How so?
D.H.
I was ruined creatively by television and
advertising and I think those Vickers owe
me a living.
C.J.
Then who will you owe a living.
D.H.
I want to raise the bar for TV
commercials to sell the now thirty
somethings from my generation
C.J.
How so?
D.H.
The only thing I do when I watch TV
commercials is have negative dialogue
with them. If fact there are some shows
I wont watch because of some ad campaigns
C.J.
Hmmm.
D.H.
Hmmm. I watch ESPN and I hate most
sports. I actually am becoming
interested in many of them
C.J.
Like.
D.H.
Surfing, skating, snow boarding,
baseball, golf, you name it
C.J.
So what TV do you watch?
D.H.
Mostly ZDTV, some Huel Howser, Discover
Wings, History Channel, and any car
chases will take me to Fox or ABC- that's
about it.
C.J.
That's terrible.
D.H.
What?
C.J.
Car chases are what's wrong with
television. Do you think you're going to
change advertising when if you look at
yourself, you see that you are the same
market advertisers are going for- the car
chase- talk show- real TV market?
D.H.
I think most Amerasians especially new
Americans eat up the current fare like
the rest of the world- as some kind of
status symbol- their church and their
values mixed into their own cultural
norms. And ofcourse a mob loves a good
public execution
C.J.
So people are bad.
D.H.
You got me there. I guess it depend on
where you are.
C.J.
How about Santa Monica where you hate the
way people drive and that fact that
people litter.
D.H.
Well the good side is that I think most
of them would slow down a bit if they
were asked to and that most of them would
stop to help and there are some other
places in the world where and person in
need might be left dying in the street
C.J.
The homeless?
D.H.
That's different. I like the operation
Homeless idea
C.J.
What is that?
D.H.
To set up a program where one homeless
person at a time is giving an opportunity
to be helped- %95 of them are alcoholic
or drug addicted and need AA. There
should be a huge increase in
rehabilitation camps because these people
sober are in my opinion extremely gifted
when rehabilitated
C.J.
Gifted?
D.H.
The come out of the fire with an
appreciation for what ails the world.
They are the world's lost children.
C.J.
Have you ever thought about a life in
public service?
D.H.
You mean politics? No. I'm not made of
the right stuff.
C.J.
Oh I think you are.
D.H.
No I'm not.
C.J.
Oh yes you are.
D.H.
You insult me.
C.J.
Didn't you E-mail Bill to support him?
D.H.
Me and 1.2 million other people- wasted
the tax payers dollar by E-mailing our
support during the crisis.
C.J.
What do you do what you get hate mail?
D.H.
Refer them to EHA- Emotional Health
Anonymous.
Often hate is rooted more deeply in
issues other that my measly opinion. Why
do you ask?
C.J.
Why did you waste tax payer's dollars?
D.H.
Well I figure the president spent a
bundle to thank us- with a nice letter- I
figure 25 cents a letter times 1.2
million is $300,000. That's it! I'll E
mail the president and ask him to reply
with an html version of the letter which
I can print out and then they can send me
$50,000 for the idea! Brilliant!
C.J.
That's from your "The Zzenbutcher.com"
website right?
D.H.
Exactly.
C.J.
Tell us about that.
D.H.
Oh. Well that's about sending people and
products ideas that I come up with that
might improve their business.
C.J.
For free.
D.H.
Right. and if they thank me with a check
I think about a little more.
C.J.
How much of a check? And how will you
prevent yourself from letting money
affect this nobile pursuit.
D.H.
You mean if Proctor and Gamble thanks me
with a check for $10,000 because of an
idea I give them which saves the company
a million dollars- would I think they
were cheap skates
C.J.
I guess that's what I meant- let not turn
this into an informercial
D.H.
You asked me
C.J.
Yes. But who am I really?
D.H.
I figment of my imagination with a
brilliant purple and orange top
C.J.
Exactly.
D.H.
Okay. So what's next?
C.J.
What's this "Crew" page of your HFN?
D.H.
That's the Production Assistant's
Quarterly Journal.
C.J.
What's a Production Assistant do besides
take out the trash and why have a page
for it?
D.H.
Well it may be the lynch pin for the
whole fakeart.net project. They are the
crew member who's contribution to the
film making process is indispensable.
And I should add here that we might have
to make up three different sections to
delineate between film, commercial and
music video P.A. and I might for fun
create a system of ranking p.a.'s along
with a section for stories and how-tos
one to Lauren
Hartman! I forgot about that. And I'm
working on this website to showcase my
work but the project has become a
metaphor for my life.
C.J.
How so?
D.H.
We'll, part of how I procrastinate is to
get everything I think I need in place
before I begin. I play chess with myself
with no opponent by pushing one pawn at a
time forward. Terrible analogy. I have
to have all the How- To books before I
start living, I have to build the studio
before I start painting, the perfect
library before I start reading. What do
you do?
C.J.
I don't really exist in the context of
interviewing you. Existentially
speaking...
D.H.
Well on the flipside I have much to be
grateful for. I have a huge extended
family in the film business- the
commercial production business more
correctly.
These are people I have seen on and off
in different combinations over nearly ten
years.
C.J.
How so?
D.H.
Well, you work in these crews- everyone
is freelance and you work for different
companies on different jobs for different
producers but you always recognize
someone you've worked with before- There
250,000 people in the commercial film/
movie business and yet the experience is
villagous
C.J.
How do you spell that?
D.H.
Like JelloȚ. Let talk about JelloȚ. Hey
that's it. I'll make a JelloȚ
commercial.
C.J.
Why is it that you have so many creative
dare I say talents?
D.H.
I've been alive for a long time now. 35
years.
C.J.
But why aren't you a master of one?
D.H.
I'm not? I think I'm a genius- we'll to
be honest I might just be average- but
when you're talking about creative
exPRESSion I think that makes the genius
in us all. ExPRESSing that is sometimes
confused with conceit- what ever conceit
is.
C.J.
Why do you think you still make a living
taking out the trash?
D.H.
That is a fucking harsh question. I need
an emergency joke to kill you right now
but I'm not that funny...Maybe I'm just
lucky.
I had a teacher named Roland Young who
talked about, as an artist, you create
own complete world- a design idea?...so I
harken back to my Dungeons and DragonsȚ
days when I think about the idea of
immersion and if I look at my creative
life which begins with my Father pinning
the diaper through my flesh or the German
nanny telling me that my parents were
never coming back because I was a bad boy
or the fact that there were crocodiles in
the lake. I see that I was always doing
things that "artists" do.
C.J.
Like,
D.H.
When I was 6 I started writing stories.
When I was eight I wrote a few books.
When I was ten I was back in the states I
started playing D&D and I published a
newsletter for the D&D group and I
started playing music. TV killed my
writing career. Through out this time I
was doing the illustration for the
written works but I still didn't consider
myself an "artist". Is this getting
boring?
C.J.
Yes. Do you know any good jokes?
D.H.
I never could tell jokes. But when I'm
working I manage to make everyone laugh
their asses off. My brand of humor is
very whacky. I want to do make whacky
commercials if I ever get any fucking
representation
C.J.
You cuss a lot
D.H.
I hate that. I'm glad I don't see
myself. You know, in some ways I'm a
missionary- like the Dominicans from my
past. I spent a lot of time angry about
litterbugs and rude drivers and on set, I
often key right into the most unhappy
person and try to crack their mask. It's
a kind of curse
C.J.
You make a lot of obscure references.
D.H.
No I don't.
C.J.
Who the hell are the Dominican's?
D.H.
Now that is kind of funny. It's like
when someone sneezes I say Bless you and
if they sneeze again I say bless you damn
it and if they sneeze again I say bless
you God damn it but no one ever laughs.
C.J.
You live in your own world sometimes huh?
When did you realize you were an artist?
D.H.
I took an oil painting class. I can
render and I used to think that is what
made an artist. I'm a really bad painter
or I'm a genius is what "they" say.
Anyway, I was working is post and I'd get
off work at four am and I'd go visit my
girlfriend at the time, who was in the
hospital in a coma- then I'd go to this
painting class and the old woman would
yell at me about objectifying the model
by painting firmer larger breasts. She
would take the paint brush out of my hand
and paint over my work! God I wish I
still had those pieces now
C.J.
You painted over them.
D.H.
When you're poor and you need canvas you-
I also never really finish a piece. I've
sold paintings that I call "one note"
types- where I do the work in a single
exPRESSion. What I like to do is work the
piece like a mathematician might play
with their pet theorem. Each piece like
that I do can take years to complete
while I do the calculations
C.J.
The building of the canvas
D.H.
Quit teasing me
(feigning the voice of a
whining child)
C.J.
The painting of the painting
D.H.
The structure and composition I usually
trace but its the color and what I call
the accoutrement which make for the
work...the part of the process I love.
C.J.
Is the part of you that paints the quick
"single note" works the Mr. Hyde in you?
D.H.
Definitely. I'm glad you ask these weird
questions. You make me feel normal.
C.J.
You're welcome.
D.H.
We should interview you sometime. You
know that's a prerequisite to write for
the HFN (fakeart.net Newsletter)
C.J.
Really?
D.H.
Yeah. Anyone who wants to write for us
must first submit and self- written
interview of themselves.
C.J.
I'm a journalist- there's nothing
interesting about my life. How's the
your web venture coming along?
D.H.
I have had a hard time getting started on
it. As you might remember, it took me 5
years to shoot my film and five years to
give up on my band and five years to go t
art school and five years to paint a body
of work and fuck- it takes along time for
me to do things when I have so many
distractions
C.J.
I remember you telling me that it was how
you thought you could best share your
work.
D.H.
Yeah. Well having art shows or doing film
or publishing your writings are full time
jobs and since I'm into much of the arts,
I can think no better way that the web.
When I first put the site up and
submitted it to search engines, I got
hits from all over the world- including
the state department and the department
of defence- that was kind of interesting.
I include the word underground in my meta-
tag
C.J.
Meta- tag?
D.H.
They help the web surfer find you- by
listing key words that describe what your
site is all about. I used underground to
describe the anti- secondhand smoking
commercials and I guess the government
picked up the word and looked at my site
or maybe they search all sites looking
for words or hate stuff
C.J.
What do you think about that?
D.H.
What?
C.J.
The government regulating the internet-
or taxing the internet?
D.H.
Those are two different questions. I
wouldn't mind the C.I.A. keeping tabs on
us. The scary scenarios that this
implies are less worrisome than the
alterative
C.J.
You are for Carnivore (the FBI's search
engine)
D.H.
I'm more interested in public
transportation than giving my credit card
to a total stranger.
C.J.
You believe man is inherently good.
D.H.
Of course. People behind the wheel are
just abusing power- power needs a
vestibule that can hold it.
C.J.
What should be done?
D.H.
I don't know. I think making kindness
fashionable is a good idea but- well shit-
I'm confused about the answer now that
I'm talking about it. If we are talking
about kindness I think it's because I'm
scared by rudeness where other people
don't notice it. It might be that I
always need to have something to be
unhappy about-
C.J.
Are you unhappy?
D.H.
No. But this has been a very difficult
ten years. I've paid high interest on
being a drug addict in my late teens-
early twenties. I don't regret- well I
have regrets but I wouldn't trade it. I
used to be told that my best thinking got
me where I was (meaning that the mess I
was in was due to my best thinking and
that) I was also told that pain was going
to be my "touchstone for growth" so I
figure that my best thinking was going to
lead to growth eventually.
C.J.
What are we talking about now?
D.H.
Well. Much of my recent pain is due to
not getting work making commercials.
C.J.
Why would you want to make commercials?
D.H.
Hmmm.
C.J.
Why would a genius like you want to sell
soap?
D.H.
I'm a knuckle head. I want to make anti-
commercials but I have gotten my reel
into the right hands. I keep thinking I
need to do a website and build my virtual
advertising agency to show the kind of
work I want to do.
C.J.
Hmmm.
D.H.
That's a great top.
C.J.
Thanks. they make my breasts look pretty
big huh?
D.H.
Where were we?
C.J.
Something about the traffic and your
director's reel and the web.
D.H.
And why the hell I would want to sell
soap. Well first- because I'm an artist-
did I say thins already?
C.J.
What?
D.H.
About the need to publish?
C.J.
I don't remember.
D.H.
Well an artist needs to publish his work
even if it's only sending out the slides.
It's building a brand. The only
difference is that although I'm building
a brand based on my creativity, I'm also
building a house to the work of others.
C.J.
Why?
D.H.
I told you. I don't want to take out
trash for a living.
C.J.
It's a good living.
D.H.
Yeah but I want to have a family so I
need to make a little more money. Plus I
have acquired a sizeable personal debt
which I intend to repay.
C.J.
Lets talk about music. How's the music?
D.H.
I have groove maker. But as per
everything else, I'm waiting to have the
sight up to start writing again.
C.J.
What kind of music would you be doing?
D.H.
Some kind of electronica and I might
start singing some good old big band
stuff- for fun.
C.J.
You're into a lot of stuff? If Charlie
Rose ever needed a loser to interview I'd
recommend you.
D.H.
That's my idea. Babe Ruth was loser. He
had the record for the most strike outs.
C.J.
You don't compare with Babe ruth. You
don't have any home runs.
D.H.
I want to be famous for being average.
That's my brand. The final brand. The
C+ student.
C.J.
C++
D.H.
My what funny new words we are learning
C.J. It has a lot to do with be wanting
to sell soap.
C.J.
How so?
D.H.
I was ruined creatively by television and
advertising and I think those Vickers owe
me a living.
C.J.
Then who will you owe a living.
D.H.
I want to raise the bar for TV
commercials to sell the now thirty
somethings from my generation
C.J.
How so?
D.H.
The only thing I do when I watch TV
commercials is have negative dialogue
with them. If fact there are some shows
I wont watch because of some ad campaigns
C.J.
Hmmm.
D.H.
Hmmm. I watch ESPN and I hate most
sports. I actually am becoming
interested in many of them
C.J.
Like.
D.H.
Surfing, skating, snow boarding,
baseball, golf, you name it
C.J.
So what TV do you watch?
D.H.
Mostly ZDTV, some Huel Howser, Discover
Wings, History Channel, and any car
chases will take me to Fox or ABC- that's
about it.
C.J.
That's terrible.
D.H.
What?
C.J.
Car chases are what's wrong with
television. Do you think you're going to
change advertising when if you look at
yourself, you see that you are the same
market advertisers are going for- the car
chase- talk show- real TV market?
D.H.
I think most Amerasians especially new
Americans eat up the current fare like
the rest of the world- as some kind of
status symbol- their church and their
values mixed into their own cultural
norms. And ofcourse a mob loves a good
public execution
C.J.
So people are bad.
D.H.
You got me there. I guess it depend on
where you are.
C.J.
How about Santa Monica where you hate the
way people drive and that fact that
people litter.
D.H.
Well the good side is that I think most
of them would slow down a bit if they
were asked to and that most of them would
stop to help and there are some other
places in the world where and person in
need might be left dying in the street
C.J.
The homeless?
D.H.
That's different. I like the operation
Homeless idea
C.J.
What is that?
D.H.
To set up a program where one homeless
person at a time is giving an opportunity
to be helped- %95 of them are alcoholic
or drug addicted and need AA. There
should be a huge increase in
rehabilitation camps because these people
sober are in my opinion extremely gifted
when rehabilitated
C.J.
Gifted?
D.H.
The come out of the fire with an
appreciation for what ails the world.
They are the world's lost children.
C.J.
Have you ever thought about a life in
public service?
D.H.
You mean politics? No. I'm not made of
the right stuff.
C.J.
Oh I think you are.
D.H.
No I'm not.
C.J.
Oh yes you are.
D.H.
You insult me.
C.J.
Didn't you E-mail Bill to support him?
D.H.
Me and 1.2 million other people- wasted
the tax payers dollar by E-mailing our
support during the crisis.
C.J.
What do you do what you get hate mail?
D.H.
Refer them to EHA- Emotional Health
Anonymous.
Often hate is rooted more deeply in
issues other that my measly opinion. Why
do you ask?
C.J.
Why did you waste tax payer's dollars?
D.H.
Well I figure the president spent a
bundle to thank us- with a nice letter- I
figure 25 cents a letter times 1.2
million is $300,000. That's it! I'll E
mail the president and ask him to reply
with an html version of the letter which
I can print out and then they can send me
$50,000 for the idea! Brilliant!
C.J.
That's from your "The Zzenbutcher.com"
website right?
D.H.
Exactly.
C.J.
Tell us about that.
D.H.
Oh. Well that's about sending people and
products ideas that I come up with that
might improve their business.
C.J.
For free.
D.H.
Right. and if they thank me with a check
I think about a little more.
C.J.
How much of a check? And how will you
prevent yourself from letting money
affect this nobile pursuit.
D.H.
You mean if Proctor and Gamble thanks me
with a check for $10,000 because of an
idea I give them which saves the company
a million dollars- would I think they
were cheap skates
C.J.
I guess that's what I meant- let not turn
this into an informercial
D.H.
You asked me
C.J.
Yes. But who am I really?
D.H.
I figment of my imagination with a
brilliant purple and orange top
C.J.
Exactly.
D.H.
Okay. So what's next?
C.J.
What's this "Crew" page of your HFN?
D.H.
That's the Production Assistant's
Quarterly Journal.
C.J.
What's a Production Assistant do besides
take out the trash and why have a page
for it?
D.H.
Well it may be the lynch pin for the
whole fakeart.net project. They are the
crew member who's contribution to the
film making process is indispensable.
And I should add here that we might have
to make up three different sections to
delineate between film, commercial and
music video P.A. and I might for fun
create a system of ranking p.a.'s along
with a section for stories and how-tos
